this is an underground economy, and it's happening every day. it's a perfect example of the waste, fraud and abuse going on because of bloated government. >> what's your reaction? >> i can't believe you guys are making this example. first of all, danine is talking about an underground economy, you're talking about it coming out of the taxpayer's pocket. both wrong. this is a universal fee charged everyone with a cell phone. let me finish. they finish, they have this charge because of access for people in poor areas of the country. you have to be in poverty to qualify for one of these phones. you get 90 minutes a month so an employer has a contact number. these are legitimate reasons. >> there are 10 million people who are getting these phones. >> i'm sorry we have that many poor people. it wasn't started. people call it obama phone, it started under ronald reagan. >> it started under them, it was wrong now, it's wrong now. >> it's not an example of an entitlement president, welfare excess, it's a good program started by a republican president th